English suspects of withholding relevant evidence


16 December 2010
Correio da Manhã
Henrique Machado
See Joana Morais Blog for translation.


Correio da Manhã
Gonçalo Amaral believes that the British police did not disclose all that they have found to the PJ

[Preliminary summary - to be updated / edited as needed:]

  • The British Ambassador in Lisbon [Ellis] admitted that British police found incriminating evidence against the McCanns as was revealed in Wikileaks.
     
    • Amaral states that he does not know what this evidence is, but that it could have been hidden.
       
  • Gaspar Statement

    • The Gaspar statement was sent to the Leicestershire Police on 16 May 2007
       
    • The British police did not forward the Gaspar statement detailing pedophile suspicions re: David Payne until October 2007 [after Amaral was removed from the case]
       
  • Credit Cards/McCann relationship/Madeleine medical history
    • The British police told the PJ that there was nothing relevant in regard to the McCann's or the Tapas 7 credit cards, the "relationship between Kate and Gerry or in Madeleine's medical history
       
  • Eddie/Keela: British Sniffer Dogs
     
    • Amaral does not believe that the evidence of which Ambassador Ellis spoke has anything to do with the British sniffer dogs (who detected blood and cadaver odour in the trunk of the car rented by the McCanns) because at the time of the conversation reported in the cable (28 September 2007), the Birmingham Forensic Services Lab had already stated that the blood traces did not correspond to Madeleine
       
    • Amaral has serious doubts as to the DNA results obtained in the Birmingham Forensic Services Laboratory
       
  • Evidence withheld?
     
    • In Amaral's opinion, the evidence Ambassador Ellis referred to "must be something else" - which the English police did not hand over to the PJ
       
    • Amaral's opinion is that the most probable hypothesis is with regard to David Payne
       
  • David Payne
     
    • In 2005 in Majorca, David Payne allegedly rubbed his nipple and put his finger in his mouth while looking at Madeleine, suggesting a sexual act and asking Gerry if his daughter did that
       
    • This act was witnessed by English doctor [Gaspar} who informed the British police on 16 May 2007
       
    • The PJ only learned of this in October 2007 when Paulo Rebelo's group went to England to question the Tapas 7
       
    • David Payne was the only one of the group who was heard by the British Police without the presence of the Portuguese police
       
    • Payne was the last person, beside the McCanns, to Madeleine alive
       
    • Payne allegedly liked to bathe the children
       
  • Amaral told CM that he is gathering together new evidence in order to force the reopening of the investigation
     
     
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Transcripción y Vídeo de “Reme” - Goncalo Amaral & The Truth of the Lie


Please see original translation and video here:
Transcripción y Vídeo de “Reme”
Traducción de Mercedes
With thanks to "Himself"for English grammar


Concha García Campoy: Tenemos novedades en el caso “Maddie”.
El libro “Maddie: La Verdad de la Mentira” que fue escrito por el ex-policía Gonçalo Amaral, seguirá prohibido en Portugal como aquí les hemos contado.

00:55 - Concha Garcia Campoy: We have news in the "Maddie" case. The book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie" that was written by former Police Coordinator Gonçalo Amaral, will remain prohibited in Portugal as we informed here previously.

Hace unos meses, fue retirado cautelarmente de las librerías a petición de los McCann y ahora los Tribunales acaban de ratificar esta medida. Jerónimo Boloix ¿cómo estás? Buenas tardes. Y además tenemos a una persona que sabe mucho sobre este caso, autora de un blog, Mercedes ¿cómo estás?

Earlier this year, it was provisionally withdrawn from the bookstores at the request of the McCanns and now the courts have just ratified the measure. Jerónimo Boloix, how are you, good afternoon. And we have a person who knows much about this case, the author of a blog, Mercedes how are you?

¿Se puede interpretar lo que ha pasado como una nueva victoria de los McCann?

Can we interpret what happened as a new victory for the McCanns?

Invitada: Una victoria, una victoria momentánea. El hecho de que alguien prohíba hablar a un policía o a cualquier persona, es muy, muy, complicado de mantener judicialmente, Gonzalo Amaral está dispuesto a recurrir hasta el Tribunal Europeo y lo hará, es un hombre fuerte y es una lucha que tienen entre ellos y yo creo que al final...

Guest: A momentary victory. The fact that someone bans the freedom of speech of the police or any person, is very, very, difficult to maintain in a court, Gonçalo Amaral is prepared to appeal to the European Court, and he will, he is a strong man and this is a struggle they have between them and I think in the end ...

Concha: Parece ser que es verdad que la lucha es porque se reabra el caso ¿verdad Jerónimo?, lo que quiere es saber la verdad... se la está jugando y se la juega desde el primer momento..

Concha: It seems it is true that the struggle is to reopen the case, is that right Jerónimo? What he wants is to know the truth ... is taking a risk, a risk from the very start...

Invitada: Si

Guest: Yes

Jerónimo Boloix: Yo creo que incluso esta primera sentencia aunque es contrario a los intereses de Amaral, puede facilitar puede facilitar la reapertura del caso, yo creo que Gonzalo Amaral debe, debe de recurrir esta sentencia y aportarlo a la cosa. A mí lo que me sorprende mucho es que se está intentando silenciar ese libro, y acabamos de ver hace unos segundos las declaraciones del forense del caso (se refiere a las de Paulo Sargento)

Jerónimo Boloix: I think that even though this first ruling is contrary to the interests of Amaral, it may facilitate the reopening of the case, I think Gonçalo should appeal this ruling and contribute to the case. What surprises me greatly is that they are trying to silence the book, and we have just seen a few seconds ago Paulo Sargento’s statements.

Concha: Espérate un momento, ahora que lo citas porque es una declaración en Exclusiva, es el forense que ha llevado el caso desde el primer momento, y Alejandro Vázquez ha estado con él y efectivamente es absolutamente concluyente. Escuchen.

Concha: Wait a minute, now that you mention this, because it is an exclusive statement of the forensic psychologist, who has been involved in the case from the start, and Alejandro Vazquez has been with him and actually he is absolutely certain; listen.

Entrevista Exclusiva a Paulo Sargento

Exclusive Interview with Paulo Sargento.

Entra video:

Video

Imágenes de Madeleine, jugando con sus hermanos

Pictures of Madeleine playing with her brothers (siblings)


Alejandro Vázquez: Tú has trabajado en el caso de Madeleine desde el principio

Alejandro Vázquez: You've worked on the Madeleine case from the beginning

Paulo Sargento: Si, desde el principio, desde el segundo día después de la desaparición

Paulo Sargento: Yes, from the beginning, from the second day after the disappearance

Alejandro Vázquez: ¿Y cuál es tu teoría?

Alejandro Vázquez: And what's your theory?

Paulo Sargento: Lo que creo es que ha ocurrido la muerte de la niña el día 3 de mayo y sería completamente imposible haber ocurrido el rapto. El rapto ha sido una construcción mediática solo porque no hay un único criterio (para ello).

Paulo Sargento: I think the girl died on May 3, and it would have been utterly impossible for the kidnapping to have taken place. The abduction has been a media construction only, because there is not one supporting fact to support this.

Alejandro Vázquez: ¿Y por qué los McCann dicen ahora que no hay ninguna evidencia de que Madeleine esté muerta?

Alejandro Vázquez: Why the McCanns are now saying that there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead?

Paulo Sargento: Porque su interpretación es contraria a la muerte porque hay evidencias: hay olor a cadáver, olor a sangre humana y hay un conjunto de pruebas forenses, evidencias de que la niña, infelizmente está muerta.

Paulo Sargento: Because their (the McCann’s) interpretation is contrary to death, in fact there is evidence: corpse odour, the scent of human blood and there is a set of forensic evidence, evidence that the girl is dead unfortunately.

Alejandro Vázquez: Cómo se puede explicar que con esas evidencias de que ha podido ser un asesinato, un homicidio…

Alejandro Vázquez: Can your surmise that with such evidence that there has been a murder, manslaughter...

Paulo Sargento: Si

Paulo Sargento: Yes

Alejandro Vázquez:.. se haya cerrado el caso

Alejandro Vázquez: ...the case has been shelved.

Paulo Sargento: Yo estoy seguro que si fuera un matrimonio portugués el tratamiento no hubiese sido así. Las evidencias forenses se constituyen como pruebas y probablemente el matrimonio estaría en prisión.

Paulo Sargento: I am sure that were it a Portuguese couple, the treatment wouldn’t have been the same. The forensic evidence would have been constituted as proof, and probably the couple would be in prison.

Alejandro Vázquez: ¿Y cómo, el comportamiento de el Gerry y de Kate, cómo podrías definir..?

Alejandro Vázquez: How would you define Gerry and Kate’s behaviour?

Paulo Sargento: Han cambiado los papeles o los roles, también asesorados por asesores de imágenes desde el inicio el peluche en la mano, y después hemos visto que Kate desaparecía de escena y Gerry ha tomado el mando. Gerry es muy agresivo., es muy, muy agresivo, es un hombre que es muy impulsivo,…ahhh, Maddie desapareció, entre comillas, Gerry McCann ha pedido un cura, a mi si me desaparece la hija yo pediría a toda la policía… después ha pedido un asesor de imagen, para mí sería mejor pedir más policías. Venga la primera evidencia de rapto y yo me callo para siempre, pero que sea discutida de una forma lógica

Paulo Sargento, They have changed the roles, also advised by image consultants, from the beginning Cuddle Cat in her hands, and then we saw that Kate disappeared from scene and Gerry took over the leadership. Gerry is very aggressive. He is very, very aggressive, he is a man who is very impulsive... ahhh, Maddie disappeared, between quotes, and Gerry McCann asked for a priest, if my daughter disappears I would ask for more police ... after that he requested an image consultant, to me it would be better to ask for more police. If somebody presents me the first piece evidence of an abduction, I'll shut up forever, but real evidence and discussed in a logical manner.

Alejandro Vázquez: ¿Cómo se puede entender ahora que sea Gonzalo el acusado...?

Alejandro Vázquez: How can we understand now that the accused is Gonzalo...?

Paulo Sargento: Gonzalo Amaral representa simbólicamente aquí, lo que Gerry y Kate no quieren, la muerte, más su participación y/o ocultación de cuerpo. Porque ha sido el Inspector Jefe, ha salido, ha publicado un libro que dice lo mismo cosa que dice el proceso.

Paulo Sargento: Gonçalo Amaral represents symbolically, what Gerry and Kate do not want, the death, and their participation in concealing the body. Because he has been the Chief Inspector, has left the police, has published a book that says the same as the process.

Alejandro Vázquez: Tú tienes confianza que en algún momento se pueda saber la verdad, que se reabra el proceso.

Alejandro Vázquez: Are you confident that at some point the truth will be known, and the process reopened?

Paulo Sargento: Yo soy un amante de la Justicia, yo creo que se hará Justicia, no sé cuando

Paulo Sargento: I believe in justice; I believe that Justice will be done, I don’t know when.

Alejandro Vázquez: Muchas gracias por todo

Alejandro Vazquez: Thank you for everything

Paulo Sargento: A ti.

Paulo Sargento: Thank You.

Acaba el video de la entrevista.

End of the Video

Concha: ¡¡Madre mía!! Habla claro, rotundo, absolutamente, eh.. ¿Creéis vosotros también que si como él dice que si los McCann fuesen portugueses estarían en la cárcel? ¿Qué sensación tienes Mercedes?

Concha: Mother! He speaks clear, categorical, absolutely, eh... Do you think, as he says that if the McCanns were Portuguese they would be in jail? What do you feel Mercedes?

Invitada: Por supuesto, sin ninguna duda. Unos padres que reconocen que dejaban solos a tres niños pequeños, por debajo de cuatro años, para irse a cenar y que dicen que pasaban por allí cada media hora, cosa que se ha demostrado, que por lo menos la noche anterior no fue cierta, hay una declaración que consta en el Sumario, de una vecina que oyó llorar a la niña durante una hora y media pues eso para cualquier otro matrimonio…

Guest: Of course, without a doubt. Parents who recognize that they left three small children alone, under four years of age, to have dinner and they say they were passing by every half hour, which has been shown, that at least the night before this was not true, there is a statement that appears in the Process of a neighbour who heard the girl crying for an hour and a half the night before, that for any other couple...

Alfonso Egea: No es que sea una hipótesis, es que ha habido ya, ejemplos en Portugal. Hubo un caso de una niña y la madre no solamente no fue sospechosa sino que no estuvo en prisión, evidentemente la nacionalidad de los McCann, aquí juega un papel importante. Ahora después de escuchar al forense (Paulo Sargento) imagino...

Alfonso Egea: It's not a hypothesis; there have been examples in Portugal. There was one case of a child and the mother was not only suspected but was imprisoned, obviously the nationality of the McCanns plays an important role here. Now after hearing Paulo Sargento imagine...

Concha: Es que él es taxativo, que está muerta. Que no hay dudas forenses.

Concha: Because he is precise, she is dead. There are no forensic doubts.

Alfonso Egea: Imagino que la próxima maniobra de los McCann será pedir también que este hombre se calle y si por ellos fuera, que se calle todo el mundo…

Alfonso Egea: I guess the next move for the McCanns will be to request this man to shut up too and if this was up to them, everyone should shut up ...

Jerónimo Boloix: Es que es lo más vergonzoso de todo esto es que como bien ha dicho el forense, el libro lo que hace es recoger el estado de la investigación. Y es que este señor que ha hablado es el forense que ha analizado todas las pruebas forenses de este caso. Acaba de decir blanco y en botella. Lo único que le ha faltado por decir es cuando deben ingresar en prisión estos señores. Pero aquí vamos a ser realistas, aquí lo que está pasando es una lucha política por parte del Gobierno inglés contra el Gobierno portugués impidiendo además que este caso se aclare y desgraciadamente, estamos en una situación donde se está produciendo posiblemente, una mentira judicial, y hay un tema que no debemos de olvidar, esta niña desapareció el día 3 de mayo, tres años ya, y nadie la está buscando porque a nadie le interesa buscarla. Y hay instrucciones por parte de los padres y las personas y las instituciones que apoyan a los padres de que no se busque

Jerónimo Boloix: The most shameful of all this is that, as Paulo Sargento said, the book reflects the status of the investigation. The person who spoke is a forensic psychologist who has been involved with the case from the beginning. He said white and in a bottle... (Spanish riddle: white and in a bottle... The obvious answer is: milk). The only thing he didn’t say is when these people should go to prison. But let's be realistic here, what is happening, is a political struggle by the British Government against the Portuguese Government, this is preventing further clarification, and unfortunately, we may be in a situation of a judicial lie. There an issue that we must not forget, this little girl disappeared on May 3, three years ago, and no one is looking for her because no one cares for her. There are instructions from the parents, individuals and institutions that support the parents in their bogus search for the girl.

Concha: Bueno, es verdad, que además lo que ha dicho Mercedes y este hombre, es que claro, es que desaparece una hija y lo primero que haces es llamar a un cura, es que claro, yo lo primero que haría es llamar a un policía, quieres que tal, buscas un asesor de imagen, no más policía para investigar, eso sí que es

Concha: Well, it's true that, in addition to what yourself and Paulo Sargento have said, it is clear that, when a child is missing and the first thing you do not do is call a priest, the first thing I would do is call the police, here they requested an image consultant, not more police to investigate, now that's...

Invitada: Yo puedo afirmar que el primer artículo publicado, se publicó a las 12 y un minuto del día 4 de mayo. Consta en el Sumario que la primera llamada a la policía desde la recepción del Ocean Club, fue a las once menos veinte de la noche..ummm, van un poco justos

Guest: I can say that the first article was published at 1 minute past 12 of May 4th. We can see in the process that the first call to police from the Ocean Club’s reception was at twenty to eleven PM... ummm, the timings just don’t fit.

Alfonso Egea: Tú lo sabes muy bien, aquel verano, compartía época de veraneo con los McCann, un productor de televisión, que es la segunda persona que recibió la llamada, incomprensible…

Alfonso Egea: You know very well that, that summer, they shared time with a television producer, who was the second person to receive a call, incomprehensible...

Invitada: Efectivamente...

Guest: Actually...

Jerónimo Boloix: Tan incompresible es, eso de que ellos teniendo acceso al futuro primer ministro británico, Gordon Brown, no le pidan que les envíe a los máximos especialistas, a Scotland Yard, sino que le ceda a su asesor de imagen, esto es pura y llanamente un instalarse en que la imagen de los McCann no puede quedar manchada bajo la sospecha que tienen que ver algo con su hija...

Jerónimo Boloix: Equally incomprehensible is that having access to the future British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, they didn’t request top British specialists, Scotland Yard, but this image consultant, this is pure and simply an agreement in that the image of the McCanns must appear above suspicion in the matter of their daughter’s...

Concha: A mí me sorprende más, además, Mercedes, que ya algunos piensan y yo creo que con fundamento, debes ser la que más sabe de este caso, porque lo has recopilado,..Hasta que se sepa la verdad. Bueno ¿qué empeño, no? Le has puesto un empeño a lo Gonzalo Amaral y crees que se puede saber si gente como tú no tira la toalla...?

Concha: It surprises me more, Mercedes, and some will think and I believe with good reason, you must be the person that knows more about this case here, because you have collected most of the information... “Until we know the truth”. Well, what a commitment, no? You’ve made a commitment to Gonçalo Amaral and, do you think that we will know the truth if people like you don’t throw the towel...?

Invitada: Yo creo que estamos tirando unos de otros, en la red, que en este momento hay muy pocos medios de comunicación que estén tratando esto, como hoy, de una forma seria, nadie quiere acribillar a los padres , lo que se pretende es que permita a la policía hacer su trabajo, nada más. Y se ve clarísimamente que ha habido una presión externa, no importa de quien, ha habido una presión para cerrar un caso que tiene muchísimas diligencias sin hacer, algo inaudito, en cualquier investigación

Guest: I think we are all helping each other on the internet, there are currently very few media outlets that are treating this, like today, in a serious way, nobody wants to censure the parents, the aim is to allow the police to do their job, nothing more. You can see very clearly that there was external pressure, no matter from whom; there has been pressure to close a case that was ongoing, something that is unprecedented in an investigation of this nature.

Jerónimo Boloix: Yo quisiera preguntarle a Mercedes si tú sabes la razón por la que en este juicio que se ha celebrado ahora, contra el libro, ehh, de Gonzalo Amaral, porqué no se han admitido los testigos o no han comparecido los testigos ingleses.

Jerónimo Boloix: I want to ask Mercedes if you know the reason why this trial that has been held now, against Gonçalo Amaral’s book, why haven’t they admitted a witness or why haven’t the English witnesses appeared?

Invitada: Estaban presionados. Alegaron que estaban bajo secreto de Estado. El secreto de Estado es algo que se ha invocado en varias ocasiones. Hay periodistas que han solicitado información y les han contestado que no se la podían facilitar porque el caso estaba bajo secreto de Estado.

Guest: They were pressured. They claimed they were under official secret. Official secrecy is something that has been invoked on several occasions. There are journalists who have requested information and reply they have received, is that it could not be provided because the case was under the Official Secrets Act.

Concha: Si hay un primer ministro relacionado.

Concha: If a Prime Minister is related....

Jerónimo Boloix: Pero la Justicia y el aclarar que ha pasado con una niña de tres años yo creo que está por encima…

Jerónimo Boloix: But Justice for the girl and ascertaining what happened to her, I think it is paramount...

Concha: Pues Mercedes, ha sido un placer, muchísimas gracias. Contaremos contigo cuando tengamos que seguir tirando del hilo que a mí me parece muy interesante.

Concha: Well Mercedes, it has been a pleasure, many thanks. We will contact you again when we review this case that I find so very interesting.

Invitada: Gracias. Gracias por tratarlo de forma seria y darle la oportunidad a Madeleine. Todo el mundo les da la oportunidad a Kate y a Gerry McCann.

Guest: Thank you; thank you very much for addressing this issue seriously and for providing an opportunity for Madeleine. Everyone gives the opportunity to Kate and Gerry McCann.

****

End of translation.  Please visit Mercedes' Blog: http://mercedessigueaqui.blogspot.com/
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Quotes: McCanns re: Goncalo Amaral


Quotes from Clarence Mitchell or the McCanns, their family and their friends re: Goncalo Amaral


30 September 2007
"Kate and Gerry want to cooperate with the Portuguese police and would hope that they and their resources are being deployed as effectively as possible at all times." ~Mitchell
2 October 2007
""We are aware Mr Amaral has been removed from his post and we cannot comment. Gerry and Kate have consistently said that they are very happy to cooperate fully with the Portuguese authorities and they will continue their cooperation irrespective of who is in charge of the actual hunt for Madeleine" ~Mitchell
3 October 2007
The new head of the Portuguese police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann should refocus the inquiry on finding the youngster, the family's spokesman said yesterday. Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral was taken off the case after his comment that Kate and Gerry McCann had been calling the shots by identifying lines of inquiry for Leicestershire officers. The family's spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the claims were ludicrous. "What they want now is whoever takes over to refocus the inquiry on to finding Madeleine." The decision to remove Mr Amaral was "a decision for the Portuguese authorities", he said. "Kate and Gerry have always said they were more than happy to co-operate with the Portuguese authorities, whoever that might be. Whoever takes over from Mr Amaral, they will continue that co-operation and do anything that is required - including going back to Portugal if necessary." Asked if it was true the McCanns were identifying lines of inquiry for Leicestershire Police, he replied: "Of course not - it's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion." He also called for an end to "unsubstantiated allegations" in newspapers in Portugal and Britain.
10 October, 2007
"Kate and Gerry hope Mr Rebelo will now work to eliminate them from the inquiry as suspects and will then be in a position to refocus his team into the search for Madeleine."Clearly we hope that a new head of the inquiry will work to ensure the unsubstantiated and unfounded allegations surrounding the case will now end."~Mitchell
11 October, 2007
"They are delighted as it shows the police are still looking for the kidnapper. The focus seems to have gone from building a case against them to looking for Madeleine, which is good news."~Mitchell
12 October, 2007
"These are fresh eyes, for which they are grateful. The development is welcomed by the family. If the new team are experts in homicide then hopefully Mr Rebelo can eliminate Kate and Gerry as suspects."~Mitchell
"Mr Mitchell said the couple had nothing to hide, so were not worried about the results. However, they have hired their own team of forensics experts to examine independently any evidence which the police put forward. But he added: "Whatever comes back will be leaked and exaggerated and the McCanns are fearful about that."
A source close to Kate and Gerry revealed the 39-year-old couple's fury at the police failings - but welcomed Rebelo's clear-out. The source said: "They are livid - they cannot believe how badly this has been mishandled."Not putting vital information on computer file is so amateurish. But at least the new man seems to know what he is doing."
21 October, 2007
"We'd be very concerned to hear all the information in the police's hands has not been properly or effectively co-ordinated or collated."If Mr Rebelo is strengthening their system that's all to the good."~Mitchell
30 October, 2007
"We welcome any indication that the Portuguese police are taking the abduction theory seriously because that is what happened."~Mitchell
1 November, 2007
Re: José Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses statement that need new *evidence* to be able to bring charges.
"If these reports are true this would indicate the police absolutely, and quite rightly, have no case."~Mitchell
15 November, 2007
Re: Portuguese public prosecutor rejection of McCann's application to see dossier of evidence against them
Clarence Mitchell said their hopes had been dashed. "Kate and Gerry were hoping that the change in law may have meant that they at last saw what the police think they have against them. "But the new law has an exception clause which means that if the prosecutor thinks the case is a complex one he can refuse to let the suspects see the evidence. "He has decided that in Kate and Gerry's case the case is complex so they can't see the evidence. They have no idea what the police have as evidence against them. "All they have seen is so-called evidence that has been leaked to the Portuguese press and they don't know what, if any, of that is true. Their lawyers are going to continue the fight."
8 December, 2007
The McCanns' official spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the couple were relieved that the police were now trying again to find Maddie alive. "The thrust of the inquiry for the last six or seven months has been wrong," "If the police now believe that abduction is the strongest possibility, that is very encouraging. "Madeline did not die in the apartment. The police should be focusing on who took her – and finding her. "They must also accept Kate and Gerry should be eliminated from the inquiry."
26 April, 2008
Re: Amaral's decision to quit the PJ after 27 years on the force and his intention to write about the McCann case.
"We are not surprised at this." "It's outrageous that Mr Amaral can express such an overtly prejudiced view when he is still formally a member of the Policia Judiciaria. "This man was intimately involved in the decision to make Kate and Gerry arguidos and it is upsetting that he is now one of several police officers who seem to want to cash in on Madeleine's disappearance. Our lawyers will be reading his book in fine detail."~Mitchell
27 April, 2008
Re: McCann's plan to write a "tell-all" book
"It will be the family's story, the only official book. Kate and Gerry are both keen to put the truth of everything that has happened to them on record."It will be a detailed account of their experience, from the pain of the night Madeleine was kidnapped, to being named as official suspects in the investigation." "A number of books are being published in Portugal and the UK. Kate and Gerry want the public to know the real truth."~Mitchell
29 April 2008
Re: Portuguese police reconstruction
Clarence Mitchell said the couple and their friends had not ruled out the possibility of cooperating with a reconstruction, if they felt it was being done to try to find Madeleine. But he added: 'Until they get satisfactory answers, they will not go. The lawyers are not saying it is a trap but they are asking what the motivation is behind it.'
2 July, 2008
Re: McCann's demand that their their private investigators be allowed to examine police files
"There is great work going on behind the scenes, very diligent work in many countries. Kate and Gerry will never rest until they know what has happened to her. If she's still alive they will never rest until they see her come home. "The police information is a key component in that. If the police are not going to go any further on the criminal investigation then, for the love of God, that information could help find her or at least bring to justice whoever has taken her. The information in their files surely cannot sit on the shelf gathering dust. It has to be released."~Mitchell
5 July, 2008
Re: Portuguese police belief that Maddie died in the apartment and that the McCanns were influencing the British police
"Mr Amaral has consistently made these allegations."Kate and Gerry and their friends have nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance."~Mitchell
"It's a great shame that Mr Amaral is saying these things. He should have found Madeleine as the police officer in charge. "They are angry. But it has got to the stage of weary resignation."~Mitchell
6 July, 2008
Re: Police statements about inconsistencies in the timeline given by the Tapas9
"We wait to hear from the prosecutor. It will be most vigorously defended if it ever comes to that."~Mitchell
20 July, 2008
Re: McCann's plan to appear on the Oprah show
"Kate and Gerry will talk about the police inquiry once their arguido status has been lifted. "They want to get their side of the story across. They want the weight of guilt by association lifted from their shoulders. And they will make it clear that they will continue to search for Madeleine, come what may."~Mitchell
"Kate and Gerry are furious. They've kept their thoughts private - because the Portuguese legal system left them no choice. It's been incredibly frustrating. "They know the police have given up looking for Maddie, so they've nothing to lose. A string of mistakes were made. And police leaked things that were totally untrue. When it was reported that Maddie's DNA was found in their car, Kate and Gerry could only conclude someone was trying to frame them. "Being suspects has put an appalling strain on them. Kate hasn't been able to go out without thinking people may be pointing a finger of blame. "As soon as they're free to talk about the appalling way they have been treated, they will."~McCann "friend"
21 July, 2008
Re: Goncalo Amaral's statement: "People can say what they like. All I would say is that I'm trying to contribute to the discovery of the truth. "I worked 27 years as a police officer - and my conscience can't accept that this is the first case that slipped through my fingers."
"It's a great shame that Mr Amaral apparently feels the need to make money out of Madeleine's disappearance. "We hope that any profits he makes from this book will go to the fund to find their daughter but we are not optimistic. "Until the judicial secrecy is lifted, he is covered by those laws in the same way as everybody else associated with the case is, and as a result Kate and Gerry's libel lawyers will read that book with great interest."~Mitchell
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Full DNA Match in McCann's Car


Police 'Found Full DNA Match' In McCanns' Car 

Police have found a full DNA match which links Madeleine McCann's body to a hire car rented by her parents five weeks after she went missing.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt has the latest. 
Yes, I know, the video has been "removed by the user".  If anyone has a back-up copy, please let me know and I will link to it.  The FACT remains, this video  WAS aired.

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Gonçalo Amaral / DNA


8 August 2008
VIDEO


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Former 'Maddie Cop' interview


See The McCann Files archive:  Gonçalo Amaral - The Interviews (July '08)

Exclusive in English: Former 'Maddie Cop' interview
31 July 2008
The Portugal News

Brendan de Beer
Dated: 28 July 2008, Appeared online: 31 July 2008

In an interview staged only a short walk from the regional PJ police headquarters in Faro over the weekend, Gonçalo Amaral, the former leading detective in the case involving the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, has an open and frank conversation with The Portugal News.

Lambasted by the British media, and ignored by much of the Portuguese written press since the launch of his controversial book last week (which the Correia da Manhã newspaper has assisted in promoting), Gonçalo Amaral explains his reasoning behind certain methods of investigation, and stresses his actions to date have not been to accuse anyone, rather, he argues, his focus has been about the pursuit of truth.

The Portugal News: Did you leak information about the investigation to the media?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I never had anything to do with leaks. We have to look at from where these leaks could have originated. A number of entities worked with us during the investigations and we cannot rule out the possibility that some of these leaks originated in Britain. As a matter of fact, when the FSS handed over their report to Portuguese police, we kept it under wraps, but a British daily was the first to appear with extracts of the FSS's findings.

TPN: But how does that explain that some sections of the Portuguese press have printed confidential information that later proved to be accurate?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Perhaps they had good sources of information, but we cannot conclude that they were given information by police in the Algarve.

TPN: The report leaked last week says that Gerry and Kate were made arguidos on the "merest possibility" that they were involved in the disappearance of their child. Is that accurate?

Gonçalo Amaral:
They were made arguidos on suspicion of two crimes: concealing a body and simulating an abduction and potentially the crime of abandonment. But saying they were made arguidos on the merest possibility that they were involved in the disappearance of their child is not true. The conclusions reached by the team investigating the crime, including colleagues in Britain, are the same as the five points I mention at the end of my book. Perhaps the conclusions reached in this latest report were made to facilitate the archiving of the case and findings were put across in a mild manner. Once you gain access to the case files, you will find that it was not due to a mere possibility.

TPN: What do we know about Madeleine's disappearance?

Gonçalo Amaral:
She was here on holiday. There is obviously no doubt that Madeleine existed. There is also no doubt that she went missing. The scheme employed to visit the children does, to a large extent, not correspond with the truth, it was probably used to safeguard the view that the children were safe [in the apartments on their own as their parents dined at the Tapas restaurant].

TPN: How often were the children checked upon?

Gonçalo Amaral:
One of the first lines of the investigation was to interview the party that was on holiday with the McCanns to establish this.

TPN: What did you find at the apartment?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No signs of forced entry. There were no signs of glove marks on the window. We compiled a report of the evidence we collected, but we are not here to accuse anyone.

TPN: Do you think more could have been done before archiving or closing the case?

Gonçalo Amaral:
In my opinion, a number of things are still lacking: We should have continued investigating the parents in order to either charge them or rule them out as suspects. If I represented this couple, I would have insisted that police investigations continue. Not everything we do is to incriminate a suspect. Often a phone will be tapped in order to obtain information that will clear a suspect.
We worked long hours discussing a number of potential explanations for Madeleine's disappearance; we did not insist solely that she had been abducted.

TPN: You say that politics prevented you from doing certain things during the investigation. What were those actions you would like to have taken?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I found the intervention of the [then] British Ambassador strange, as besides the British Consul in Portimão already being involved in the case from the first morning of Madeleine's disappearance, all diplomatic channels had been opened and were functional. With the arrival of the Ambassador, my colleagues and I thought it was odd, and to a certain extent made us feel limited in our investigations.

TPN: Did you ever receive orders to investigate in a certain manner?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No we did not receive any orders. I don't like talking about orders. But we felt limited.

TPN: Did the police offer a plea bargain to Kate McCann?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No.

TPN: But did you not suggest she consider a plea bargain?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We only explained the nature of certain crimes. Her lawyer was there, you can ask him.

TPN: Did Kate and Gerry McCann answer all the questions that you posed to them as fully as possible?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Up until being declared an arguido, Kate, at the request of her lawyer, co-operated. When questions became of a nature that could incriminate her, she was made an arguido, her rights and duties were read out to her in English and thereafter she opted for the right to remain silent.

TPN: And Gerry McCann?

Gonçalo Amaral:
He answered all questions, before and after being made an arguido.

TPN: When did the police first learn of the intention of the McCanns to leave Portugal?

Gonçalo Amaral:
With the arrival of the sniffer dogs, I think back in August, the couple started showing a keenness to leave the country. As for these dogs, I have not seen or heard any skepticism in Britain, contrary to Portugal.

TPN: How can you explain the theory that Kate and Gerry used their hire car in the disappearance of their daughter when it was hired 25 days after she vanished?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I don't know. I was not the one who hired the car.
A bodily fluid was detected in the trunk of the car which was similar to that of Madeleine McCann in 15 of the 19 indicators of her profile.

TPN: Has this evidence been investigated further?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No.

TPN: Why not?

Gonçalo Amaral:
You will have to ask my former colleagues that question.

TPN: What evidence was there that someone had been watching apartment 5A prior to Madeleine's disappearance?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We spoke to a number of people who came forward.

TPN: Anyone suspicious mentioned in these statements?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No. Perhaps just a British musician we later tracked down.
But in a reconstruction, witness testimonies, such as that of Jane Tanner and others, including restaurant workers, could be clarified further.

TPN: At what stage did you become suspicious of the McCanns and why?

Gonçalo Amaral:
There were a number of inconsistencies detected during the first interrogations.

TPN: Such as?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We were initially told by the parents that when they checked on the children they would use the front door. But Kate later said they used the other door. Because had they used the front door, they would have detected someone had forced their way into the room [where Madeleine and the twins had been sleeping].
But during these initial rounds of questioning, my team and I believed these inconsistencies were due to the McCanns and their friends trying to cover the fact they had left their children unattended, along with their possible lack of trust in the Portuguese police. This had a lot of weight for me in the beginning, especially as the law in Britain is far tougher concerning the abandoning of children.

TPN: Did you look into sex offenders, and what was the outcome?

Gonçalo Amaral:
It is very difficult that a paedophile pre-selected Madeleine. It had to be very well planned. But all known sexual predators were investigated.

TPN: Did you have any evidence that Robert Murat and the McCanns or their friends knew each other previous to Madeleine's disappearance?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We tried to confirm this, but along with the assistance of the British police, we were unable to establish any connection. But we looked into all possibilities. Robert Murat purchased a last-minute ticket to come to Portugal a couple of days before Madeleine went missing, perhaps as it was cheaper to do so. But we had to investigate whether or not his visit coincided with Madeleine's disappearance a couple of days later and whether he had been contacted to come here.

TPN: How do you see the lawsuit that you might face over your book?

Gonçalo Amaral:
My book is based on facts. It could be a good occasion to take all the case files to court and compare what I wrote with that which is contained in the files.

TPN: What next lies ahead for you?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I have had a number of proposals, but in October I am intending on starting my practical training as a lawyer, as I already have a law degree, but never practised.
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Gonçalo Amaral and Hernâni Carvalho on TVI


See The McCann Files archive:  Gonçalo Amaral - The Interviews (July '08)

Gonçalo Amaral and Hernâni Carvalho on TVI
30 July 2008
Thanks to Joana Morais for review

Mr. Gonçalo Amaral was asked several questions regarding the book 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie'. Some contradictions in the case were explained, also possible reasons for the simulation of kidnapping and hiding of the body were advanced. Several aspects were covered relative to the dogs and their findings and were shown on the diagram produced by Correio da Manhã, which also appears in the book.

Diagram and Dogs

Regarding the diagram, produced by Correio da Manhã, there are a few mistakes: for example,
  • the sofa should be placed under the left window, there, exactly at the middle of the window, human blood and cadaver scent was found. 
  • The window in the twins and Maddie's bedroom, which is annotated in the diagram with a dog is wrong - the cadaver scent was found on the opposite side of the apartment, outside, in the small garden or backyard . 
  • Through investigation it was established that no one had died in the apartment prior to that day, so the scent and blood, which indicated a partial match to the genetic profile of Madeleine, provides the conviction that she was the one that died there. 
  • The closet in the McCanns bedroom was big enough to hide a corpse inside.


Jane Tanner's Inconsistencies and Kate's Finger Prints

When Jane gave her statement, she explained that she saw a man carrying a child, but she and some of the tapas witnesses failed to see the window of Maddie's bedroom open, which was the alleged window used by the alleged kidnapper to take Maddie.
  • The first problem is that Jane Tanner was never seen at that hour, and minutes, and place by either Gerry McCann, who has said that he was coming out of the apartment, or Jeremy Wilkins. They have both stated that they never saw her.
  • Second inconsistency is that the window was cleaned on the previous day by the Ocean Club employees, and the only finger prints (thumb and middle finger) that were found were the ones of Kate and it was evident through the position of the prints that the window was opened from the inside, to the left. 
  • Kate McCann stated that she never touched the window.

Gordon Brown and the existence of Political Pressures

The British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown called the police counterpart of Mr.Gonçalo Amaral, in Leicester, to warn him that Gonçalo Amaral had been removed. Gonçalo Amaral was only given notice of his 'removal' from the case two hours after this call was made.

Madeleine's Right Arm and the Strange Mark

The issue was raised by Mr. Hernâni Carvalho. Madeleine's right arm has a strange mark, a mark which, according to what Mr. Carvalho has learned with Doctor Natália Vara, a forensic psychologist is not a sun burn - in that case more parts of her body would show signs of sun burnings and it has the signs of a hard slap or similar.
  • The point here, is that interviews were conducted with the baby sitters at the Ocean Club crèche and none of them remembers this very visible mark on Madeleine's arm. 
  • There wasn't any statement from the parents regarding this fact. 
  • Therefore, the conclusion is that this was made after 17:30, after the parents picked Maddie up from the crèche on the 3rd of May 2007.

On the Side

A question regarding the tapas friends and how many people were seated at the table dining when the girl disappeared was put to Gonçalo Amaral. He stated: 'It is not known'.

The dispatch of the archival of the process has 140 pages. Since there are no longer jurisdictional problems the neglect case can be tried in the UK.
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The little girl died in that apartment


See The McCann Files archive:  Gonçalo Amaral - The Interviews (July '08)

"The little girl died in that apartment"
28 July 2008
As Tardes da Júlia
Gonçalo Amaral Interview
TVI
Thanks to 'astro' for transcription and translation

This is the transcript of an interview with Gonçalo Amaral, Paulo Reis and Duarte Levy, by Júlia Pinheiro, on 'As Tardes da Júlia', TVI, broadcast live on the 28th of July 2008.

Júlia Pinheiro:
The Attorney General's Office has archived the process, but everything indicates that a new stage of the Maddie case is about to begin. Gonçalo Amaral, the PJ's former coordinator has launched this book (Maddie : The Truth about the Lie) which is already here and also in my hand, where he numbers some surprising facts. He is going to be my guest today, he has not arrived yet but he will soon be here, and as these things work best with more than one accomplice, I have two journalists present to talk with me and to interrogate and talk a bit with Gonçalo Amaral. These are also two well known faces, who have been following the Maddie case in a committed and involved manner, please welcome Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis.

(applause)

Júlia Pinheiro:
Hello good afternoon! Now tell me, you have obviously read the book already.

Paulo Reis:
Yes.

Duarte Levy:
Yes.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Right away, right away.

Paulo Reis:
On the day before.

Duarte Levy:
Right on the day before.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Right on the day before. So while we wait for Gonçalo Amaral, and we're talking in his back, afterwards we will talk in front of him, what did you think? Duarte?

Duarte Levy:
There are still things that remain unsaid. I think that this book already opens a path, it already shows, clarifies a lot of things, many doubts that existed concerning the case, but I think that former inspector Gonçalo Amaral probably has a lot more to say.

Júlia Pinheiro:
So there is a certain feeling that there could be more. Is that it?

Duarte Levy:
There could be more. I think that sooner or later he will do it. The book should maybe be read twice, because there is a lot between the lines but it's a book that I strongly advise people to read.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Paulo?

Paulo Reis:
Just one detail. We read the book on the day before like so many other journalists, because the editor offered copies to the journalists that requested them on the eve of the publication. I make a very simple initial analysis that is the following. I presume that what is in the book is what is in the process. Dr Gonçalo Amaral would not make things up and include things that are not in the process. And after reading the book, I remembered the PJ's final report which led to the archiving. I went to re-read and compare both.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And what about that comparison?

Paulo Reis:
The perception that I have is that there are two perspectives, the perspective with which the PJ looks at the process' contents, in the light of what is contained in Gonçalo Amaral's book, it gives me the idea that the PJ's report focuses on what was not discovered. While the book contains what was discovered and what was not discovered. This would be almost like looking at a glass of water that is filled up to half, and saying it is half full or half empty. But I think that the PJ's report says that the glass is half empty, and Dr Gonçalo Amaral's book says that the glass is two thirds full.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And we are desperate to read the whole liquid, to drink the whole liquid, aren't we? Gonçalo Amaral could not endure us speaking about him in his back and he is already here. A round of applause for Gonçalo Amaral. Please come in?

(applause)

Júlia Pinheiro:
Good afternoon! How are you?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Good afternoon.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Please be seated.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Here?

Júlia Pinheiro:
Yes, here. I finally get to meet the man who everyone is talking about and I can't resist the first question: Are you apprehensive about the McCann couple's threats?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No. The book is based on facts and like someone told me it was written honestly, therefore it does not contain falsehoods and I'm not apprehensive.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Why do you think that they went as far as making sure that it reached Portugal, especially that sentence: "He should be very careful" the McCann couple said two days before the book was published?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I didn't hear the McCann couple say that. I heard a person who says he is a spokesman. Therefore it is not a status within the process, I think he is even a witness in the process at the moment, so that gentleman should know what he is saying.

Júlia Pinheiro:
You don't give it anything more, another value?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I have already thought about what I should do regarding that gentleman, but I'm keeping it to myself, therefore?

Júlia Pinheiro:
With Clarence Mitchell?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Exactly.

Júlia Pinheiro:
It is curious that he is one of the persons that are not mentioned in the book.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes because the book is about a criminal investigation of which that gentleman is not part. There may be an area, which is the journalistic area to understand the political pressure, but maybe a journalist could write about that area, even concerning the role of the media, the book doesn't focus much on that.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Yes but it also covers it.

Gonçalo Amaral:
It mentions facts, a set of facts, diligences, testimonies and scientific and documental evidence that is featured in the process. Therefore that gentleman is not part of the investigation despite all the noise that he has produced in the investigation.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Indeed and you report his entry into the process. There are so many questions that have not been clarified to this day

Gonçalo Amaral:
The investigation does not have to worry about that gentleman, does it?

Júlia Pinheiro:
Duarte Levy and Paulo, who will ask questions just like me, were saying that they were left with the feeling, may I call you Gonçalo?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes.

Júlia Pinheiro:
That's settled, then. They were left with the feeling that you leave a lot out of the book. And that the book does not contain everything.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Something has to be left out.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Why?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I'm a trained lawyer, I'm a lawyer, and we don't say everything, do we. It may be for a second edition of the book, it may be for certain explanations that someone wishes, therefore it's my own secret.

Júlia Pinheiro:
It's your own secret. So there is a secret? You haven't told everything?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No, but it's details, anyway.

Júlia Pinheiro:
But I get the feeling, precisely in this book, you two can join the conversation if you wish (to Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis), that in this book the details are very important, in fact, it's in the details that for people like us who follow things attentively, that this book becomes surprising. I'm going to let Paulo launch?

Paulo Reis:
A very precise, very direct question for Dr Gonçalo Amaral. Do you think that the PJ's final report, which was widely reported by the media and was even published online by Expresso newspaper. Do you think that the report faithfully reflects, does it make an accurate balance of the investigation?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Well before anything else, I want to thank you for the work that you have done since that time, the manner how you have followed the investigation and the way that you have been solidary with truth and justice.

Paulo Reis:
That is my obligation as a journalist.

Gonçalo Amaral:
You may not have done more than your obligation but I want to thank you and to thank all the journalists. Concerning that report, I have to be sincere, I haven't read it yet. I haven't had time to read it but if it is a report that led to the archiving, it cannot be faithful towards what exists in the process, so it's an imposition, I would not like to comment much further on that, but it's the position of police professionals who took it, that decision to write that report that was being very well written?

Júlia Pinheiro:
Weren't you curious to read that report? That final report from the PJ?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No, no. I haven't had time, either. I haven't had any time at all to read it. This has been a bumpy ride?

Júlia Pinheiro:
I find that absolutely impossible, I don't believe it. Have you cut all bonds with what you left behind? Have you distanced yourself emotionally from all of this?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No. I haven't cut all bonds. No.

Júlia Pinheiro:
I don't believe it!

Gonçalo Amaral:
But sincerely I haven't read the report yet. I haven't read the report, I know it's on the internet, so I will read it but I haven't read it yet.

Júlia Pinheiro:
I'm not convinced at all but say it.

Gonçalo Amaral:
But I'm telling you the truth.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Yes, Duarte?

Duarte Levy:
There is a question. We heard, a short while ago, about the existence of an investigation into your private life, yours, inspector Tavares de Almeida's private life and even Guilhermino de Encarnação's private life. Carried out by private detectives that are connected to the McCann family. And in the book, at some point you mention your dog. What happened to that dog? This is a question.

Gonçalo Amaral:
A mere coincidence, at the beginning of the investigation, the dog died. Surely nobody went there and killed him, it could have been other dogs, right.

Duarte Levy:
But during this investigation, did you never feel that maybe there was a pressure on you, on your colleagues?

Gonçalo Amaral:
The pressure was the persecution that we were subject to, but it was not much of a persecution anyway, because they didn't find out where I lived, they didn't find out outside of Portimão and not inside either, which was 100 metres from the police building that we all lived, they just followed me during those 100 metres from the police building and from the restaurant where I had lunch, so that big investigation that was done, by those journalists from English tabloids, they only managed to check 100 metres, because in fact nothing more apart from that. Concerning those gentlemen's investigation, it's the first time that I hear about that, I'm not worried. I only hope that if it is true, I hope that the entities that have responsibilities in criminal terms in this country act, because in fact it has been too much time. There is a very serious interference that started after I left Portimão, to try to carry out investigations, not only in this case but also related to the Joana case. And I think that -

Júlia Pinheiro:
In order to discredit you, to ruin your credibility, is that it?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Me and the Polícia Judiciária. I mean, they tried to question both investigations, there are things that, people came up and told me that this is for the little girls, for Joana and for Madeleine. Therefore, and they want to obtain information and things, therefore. In Portugal, criminal investigation it's well defined in the law who can carry it out, those gentlemen cannot do it and what they do here in Portugal has to be sanctioned somehow.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Obviously. Before I let Paulo speak, I would like to ask a question which I don't know whether Gonçalo will answer, but as you are not an inspector anymore and are now out of the circuit and haven't even read?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I was never an inspector. I was a coordinator? it's a matter of?

Júlia Pinheiro:
Coordinator, I apologise, but as you are not with the PJ anymore, maybe you can, we have already talked more about states of the soul, about impressions. You started shaking your head as a no, but anyway. The first contact that you had with the McCann family, father and mother, what did you think?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Well, I don't speak English, therefore the contact was made through other persons, but I had no reaction.

Júlia Pinheiro:
But did you think that you were in the presence of a genuinely worried couple, desperate to find their daughter?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I didn't make that type of judgment. In a criminal investigation, we have to base ourselves in facts, we have to be objective and leave emotions behind. The parents' situation of anguish is logical, there was anguish, now whether it was anguish over the disappearance of their daughter or over knowing that their daughter was dead, it's different and it cannot be distinguished like that. But in fact there was anguish contrary to what is being said, not in the police building but it's known that the little girl's mother cried, she apparently cried that morning, so that anguish could be over the loss of her daughter, right? Therefore if they are committed to searching, it's not normal that on the first day, the first hour, the only possible lead was abduction, abduction and it's extended into saying abduction by Portuguese paedophile networks, therefore, these conclusions are made too soon after the event, because several possibilities were open at that moment, therefore, from then onwards I also find that strange and we took it into consideration.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And later on? When you continue the investigation, you cross ways with this couple several times, did your opinion change or do you think that?

Gonçalo Amaral:
The idea that I got and that my colleagues got, things have to be put in their place, don't they, I was the coordinator of an investigation team, which included English, Portuguese, joint national directors, vice directors, this was the operational part that was being directed from Portimão, where the investigation was based. The advance that happens, is relatively changed. There is a sort of flight forward, we can understand that, it happens and possibly not only in this case, but in other cases where people sort of, I don't want to say lie, half truth, they stick to the idea that there is an abduction and they don't think about anything except abduction and psychologists and psychiatrists have already mentioned that, so it's as if they believed it was true, there is this flight forward, therefore, from that moment onwards they continue to say that they search for their daughter.

Júlia Pinheiro:
But did they change their behaviour, or did they have a more cold, more reserved attitude, more contained or more emotional?

Gonçalo Amaral:
There are situations that are reported in the book but there are others when there isn't a normal behaviour, so the person despairs during a moment of anxiety and we actually try to understand, we try, if it's an obstruction that was the issue there, if it was really a demand for ransom, and we try to negotiate with that individual who was in Holland.

Júlia Pinheiro:
That episode is particularly surprising.

Gonçalo Amaral:
And then we watch that, us Portuguese who were there...

Júlia Pinheiro:
... and the English...

Gonçalo Amaral:
... and the English, we watched it in stupefaction, he was sitting there with a lollipop laughing on the phone and we were all waiting...

Júlia Pinheiro:
We're talking about Gerry McCann, at the moment when, because someone did try a coup like that, correct? So while you were waiting for him to make contact with you?

Gonçalo Amaral:
... maybe it was his way of reacting to that tension, maybe it's justifiable but to us, we were shocked, it's not. We were searching for his daughter, doing our job.

Júlia Pinheiro:
While he visited sites on the internet...

Gonçalo Amaral:
No, he was on the phone.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Ah he was on the phone and sucking on a lollipop wasn't it and laughing and chatting?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes! Completely detached from what was going on and about to happen?

Júlia Pinheiro:
So that shocked you in particular?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Me and the colleagues who were present.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Very well. Paulo wanted to ask a question. Let's hear it ?

Paulo Reis:
A very specific question that stands out in your book. There are 7 witnesses, 4 friends of the McCanns, 2 English tourists that were there at the Ocean Club, and one of the nannies from the crèche who guarantee that they saw Robert Murat near the apartment on the evening that Madeleine disappeared. Robert Murat denies this, he says that he was with his mother, and then the Judiciária questions several members of the GNR, of the staff from the Ocean Club, and people who live there and who participated in the searches and who know Robert Murat perfectly because he lives there and all of those people deny those witnesses and peremptorily state that they did not see Robert Murat that night. This is the question that I ask you. Isn't it obligatory even from a legal standpoint, faced with what to me seem like false statements, that certificates are extracted and that there are legal procedures against those witnesses because they are giving a false statement?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Provided that the Public Ministry proves that they are really false statements.

Paulo Reis:
I'm aware it's a decision for the Public Ministry, I only...

Gonçalo Amaral:
I think they are. As a layer, I think they are, I have that notion that they in fact don't give a truthful testimony.

Paulo Reis:
But there is no news that those persons were targeted by a process from the Public Ministry.

Gonçalo Amaral:
In fact there is another situation with Mathew Oldfield who says he went inside the apartment and states that he saw two windows, and his wife says that moments before that, minutes earlier, he had listened at the two bedroom windows, so that detail of the two windows, which seems to be a mistake but it's not quite so, therefore, if they had been in the bedroom they would know that there was only one window in the bedroom, even outside of the bedroom if they had been listening it would only be one window as well, therefore there is only one window.

Paulo Reis:
So it is not known that the Public Ministry acted on the matter of the false testimonies by those witnesses, which in fact, Robert Murat's lawyer has already announced that as soon as he has access to the process ?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes, because there even was a confrontation between them?

Paulo Reis:
Yes precisely, precisely.

Júlia Pinheiro:
So for now there are no consequences?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Well, it seems not.

Júlia Pinheiro:
It seems not. I insist on the questions concerning your impressions because it was maybe the aspect of the book that I was most avid to know whether or not you would take that route, and twice or thrice you let the text slide towards it, and I was really very surprised over that behaviour from Gerry McCann at the moment when the possibility of his daughter's ransom is being discussed, which was obviously fictitious, but his behaviour relating to it and some observations that you make concerning Kate McCann. Namely a certain irritation and ill humour under several circumstances. Can you define who is Kate McCann?

Gonçalo Amaral:
It is difficult to define, isn't it. She almost cried in front of us, and then she lowered her head and when she returned she came back more aggressive, more ...

Júlia Pinheiro:
But within the couple she is the more combative, the more controlling person.

Gonçalo Amaral:
I didn't want to take that route in terms of rendering things subjective but...

Júlia Pinheiro:
I noticed that.

Gonçalo Amaral:
...but that is how it was. It was a bit, there was something not right there, but maybe a psychiatrist or someone could analyse the behaviour.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Very well, you don't want to say much about your personal impressions of her ahaha

Gonçalo Amaral:
The issue here is not... I don't have to worry about the McCann couple. What I have to worry about, or had to worry about is that little girl and find out what happened to her. It's logical that knowing who the parents are and their behaviour, how they react, all of that is important within an investigation. But the most important thing is for us to integrate with what we have, to find the facts and to follow a route in terms of the final objective. Therefore, discussing the parents... it's a question...

Júlia Pinheiro:
But surely the second route that was chosen was the possibility that they are involved in her disappearance it had to do with that behaviour that we just referred... some coldness, some...

Gonçalo Amaral:
No...

Júlia Pinheiro:
It wasn't only about that?

Gonçalo Amaral:
It was about the entire investigation that is made isn't it, but...

Júlia Pinheiro:
And these elements aren't analysed?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We don't base ourselves on empathies and we don't like or dislike persons, we focus on the investigations.

Júlia Pinheiro:
I'm not talking about empathies; I'm talking about behavioural observation. That is also analysed.

Gonçalo Amaral:
It is, but ...

Júlia Pinheiro:
Ah!

Gonçalo Amaral:
But what leads us into the direction of the little girl's death is facts, not only looking at people and thinking that...

Júlia Pinheiro:
Do you really reach the theory of an accidental death according to your theory, before the dogs arrive in Portugal, or?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes, before the dogs come to Portugal, there are signs of death as I say in the book, signs which are given by the family that a cadaver is being searched. This gentleman comes from South Africa, and hair from the little girl, supposedly from the little girl, he places it inside a machine which he invented and we hear its contents which says that there within a certain area of the beach lies a cadaver. So he came on the couple's request, otherwise he would not be requested. Then, the dogs' intervention follows a work of analysis, of planning carried out by a British national consultant, from the British police, he was here in Portugal, he saw the area, he consulted the process with what happened, therefore with facts that existed, he went to the area, he rode a helicopter, consulted with academics, and all that and he reached the conclusion that we have to search for a cadaver. In order to search for a cadaver these experts have to be used, these dogs and that was what happened. So from there on...

Júlia Pinheiro:
So that was what is called a good relationship between British and Portuguese investigators.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Very good.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Very good. Contrary to everything that was later reported by the press.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Exactly.

Júlia Pinheiro:
So your opinion is that an accidental death took place in that apartment.

Gonçalo Amaral:
It is not my opinion. It's the opinion of the investigation. This has to be made very clear. I have repeated this several times but it's important.

Júlia Pinheiro:
You are absolutely right, so according to the investigation?

Gonçalo Amaral:
According to the investigation that was composed of English, Portuguese investigators...

Júlia Pinheiro:
Exactly. The little girl died in that apartment?

Gonçalo Amaral:
The little girl died in that apartment.

Júlia Pinheiro:
On the evening of the 3rd of May.

Gonçalo Amaral:
And we reached that conclusion with the data that we have.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And before the time that was announced? Before 10 pm which is the time that was?

Gonçalo Amaral:
The time is not known because the reconstruction was not carried out, which could be important in order to define the times and to verify if they could have attended all that vigilance from the parents, every 10 or every 5 minutes, so if they were having dinner and all of a sudden almost nobody dined, isn't it. But it seems that only one plate went back, a steak that had to be warmed up. It was necessary to understand who it was that failed to eat that steak and what everyone else ate, how long the dinner lasted, how long the meals take to be prepared, and all of those things in order to understand it all afterwards.

The reconstruction was not carried out and from there on it's difficult to know at what time it could have happened. There is one piece of data in terms of accurate time that evening, it exists and it concerns the little girl, it's the time at which she left the nursery.

Júlia Pinheiro:
At 5.30 pm.

Gonçalo Amaral:
At 5.30 pm, concerning the other witnesses that were at the beach there is the video registry, they were filmed by the camera that was there, at 6.36 pm they leave the beach, first the men and afterwards the women and children, in terms of times and then there is the time of the Irish witness who knows at what time his dinner ends, and he has the receipt of the payment with the time at which he paid, when he leaves the restaurant across the street ?

Júlia Pinheiro:
Across the street he sees a man walking down with a child?

Gonçalo Amaral:
He sees a man walking down with a child.

Júlia Pinheiro:
? who he only realises to be Gerry McCann when he sees Gerry McCann descending with his children?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Exactly.

Júlia Pinheiro:
...when they return to England.

Gonçalo Amaral:
The files that mention the testimony, they mention the clumsy manner in which he carried the child, the posture which we could call athletic, that he was an athletic individual and they offer a description, they reach the point of saying that, it was maybe possible in terms of saying who it is physically, but with those characteristics, the manner in which he walked, how he carried the child, they could know who it was. And so when he sees, when that family sees Gerry McCann descending from the airplane carrying the child and he starts to walk on the pavement, they realised. Now he says it's 80%, if you tell me ah that is not evidence, I also agree it's not evidence but at least it's a piece of information and that information should always be worked out.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And was it?

Gonçalo Amaral:
When I left Portimão, on the 1st of October, I left on the 2nd but on the 1st we were arranging for those witnesses to come to Portugal. We already had permission from the national director, all that was left to do was to choose a hotel for them to stay and to schedule a date. After I left I know it took several months until the witness was heard, which happened around January or February this year, I don't know, through a rogatory letter or a request for assistance under international cooperation.

Júlia Pinheiro:
That is really one of the surprising bits of data. Another piece of data which is also surprising is related to that towel that Kate McCann gives for the first dogs, our dogs, the Portuguese. Why did she give a towel and not a piece of clothing? After this I'll let Paulo speak.

Gonçalo Amaral:
That is another question that has to be understood as well, doesn't it? The towel because supposedly she had had a bath that day, right? It would therefore carry more of the little girl's smell, the little girl's odour, so this was an option between her, I think, and the members of GNR.

Júlia Pinheiro:
The GNR which was there. Let's hear Paulo.

Paulo Reis:
Now before I move on to another question, concerning the towel has the PJ established for example how often the bed sheets and the towels in the apartments are changed. Because if memory doesn't fail me, the towel is delivered to the GNR 48 hours after the little girl disappeared.

Gonçalo Amaral:
No. The towel was handed over right on that night.

Paulo Reis:
On that night.

Gonçalo Amaral:
The GNR dogs also arrived that night. But the last time that the apartment had been cleaned was on Wednesday.

Paulo Reis:
A while ago, you mentioned an English policeman, a great expert, I suppose you were referring to Mark Harrison who is one of the two or three best British policemen in terms of investigating complex crimes. He was here, he spent a week in Praia da Luz, he rummaged through Praia da Luz, he walked everywhere, the saw the process upside down, he read the entire process, and then he wrote a report in which he concludes that the most likely hypothesis is the child's death, and if I'm correct, he proposes the dogs' coming, right?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Exactly.

Paulo Reis:
Was he the policeman who also retired, a reference that you made during a press conference? That there was an English policeman who retired.

Gonçalo Amaral:
No.

Paulo Reis:
Was there an English policeman who also retired?

Gonçalo Amaral:
The English policeman who retired is from the Leicester police. Now the reasons I would prefer not to talk about him at the moment. As a matter of fact I'd like to talk to him personally and I don't want him to be pressured so I would reserve myself the right not to comment any further.

Paulo Reis:
Just to make this very clear, is that English policeman, Mark Harrison?

Gonçalo Amaral:
No, no, no.

Paulo Reis:
...who comes here, writes a report, no, I'm not talking about the retirement issue, I'm just saying that he came here, that he is an expert in complex crime, one of the most prestigious from the English police, he walks the streets of Praia da Luz from one end to another, he measures, routes, timings, he analyses the process and after that he writes a report in his quality as one of the finest English experts, where he writes black on white that the most likely possibility is that the child died in the apartment, is that correct?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Correct.

Paulo Reis:
That is what marks the turn in the investigations.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Correct.

Paulo Reis:
And then the famous dogs arrive?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Yes, to detect cadaver and human blood odour.

Júlia Pinheiro:
So you don't want to tell why your colleague retired. He has his own reasons. But you are aware that all of this thickens the public's perception of a Machiavellian conspiracy theory. I understand your position, maybe at the moment you don't want to say more or you can't, it's a fact that your book has brought us something more but we still fail to understand everything. Mainly, possibly the macro-structure that surrounds all of this. Duarte?

Duarte Levy:
No, I just wanted to talk about the issue of the English lab's reports.

Júlia Pinheiro:
That is very important, yes.

Gonçalo Amaral:
The reports from the English labs... the English reports arrive shortly before the questionings that were scheduled. And it contained certain conclusions, if they thought they were inconclusive they shouldn't have mentioned it, the question of the 15 alleles in a profile of 19 from the little girl, stating that they match Madeleine McCann, but they also say that it could have been a construction let's say from various donors, from other persons, a contamination could have produced Madeleine McCann's profile by coincidence. But there are no excuses for saying that it is not from Madeleine McCann because they held the profiles of the father, the mother, the siblings, therefore there are no doubts that at least within that family they only matched Madeleine McCann's.

Duarte Levy:
In Portugal, for example, we only need a match of 15 alleles out of 19 in order to determine someone's paternity, therefore? That is the first fact. The second fact is that at this moment, the institute for Forensic Medicine is already prepared, they already own the same equipment as the FSS in England to carry out this type of analysis. Why does the Public Ministry or the Polícia Judiciária not request, or don't they have any more samples to carry out?

Gonçalo Amaral:
As far as we know, they have all been destroyed by now, namely the hair. Nothing can be done.

Paulo Reis:
Concerning the FSS reports ?

Gonçalo Amaral:
And the samples were microscopic, weren't they?

Paulo Reis:
Are you absolutely certain that the reports that reached you, namely those concerning the blood residues in the car boot, are exactly the reports that left the FSS?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I have no doubts whatsoever, in fact, they were delivered by a senior official from Leicester police, it carries a logo, they came and went by email, so there is an existing origin, therefore the report is signed, so I have no doubts about that.

Júlia Pinheiro:
You have no doubts whatsoever about that.

Gonçalo Amaral:
On the official document.

Júlia Pinheiro:
But wasn't it published in Belgium that?

Duarte Levy:
? that there are two reports. There is one report that left the FSS and there is a second slightly different report that arrived in Portugal.

Gonçalo Amaral:
There is a recent report and there are two other reports. The first one mentions 15 alleles and here is the main question, it places the focus, they place the focus on that part of the exam from the vehicle, in the second [report] they then focus on the apartment, if on one side 15 alleles were not enough, in the other there were only 5 alleles that matched Madeleine McCann's genetic profile, what could be read there was that there were almost no problems. Because it's easily justifiable. It may not be justifiable with the cadaver odour on the spot where the blood sample was collected, but therefore, inside the house it is easy to justify, it's more difficult with a car that was rented more than twenty days later. So this is where the major confusion lies.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Yes, Paulo?

Paulo Reis:
At a given moment in time, around the 9th or 10th of May, starts what you mention in your book, a wave of sightings of Madeleine. Madeleine is first seen in Morocco, by a?

Gonçalo Amaral:
First she is seen here in Portugal. The wave starts to spread in Portugal.

Paulo Reis:
Exactly. Portugal and then ?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Then she is seen in the North, then jumps to South America, Brazil?

Paulo Reis:
One that was largely publicised by the English newspapers, was from a Norwegian lady who was spending holidays in Morocco and who swears that she saw the little girl. What the English press does not mention at that time is that the lady is Norwegian but she is married to a man who was born and bred in Rothley, the town where the?

Júlia Pinheiro:
It could be a tremendous coincidence.

Paulo Reis:
? the McCanns resided for the last few years. This is the question that I ask you: The wave of sightings, namely in Morocco, where witnesses state that they are 100% certain that it was the child, I have no doubts. Beyond the usual confirmation with Interpol, Interpol and the police forces in those countries were requested to investigate those sightings and those witnesses.

Gonçalo Amaral:
The witnesses, it was necessary to hear those witnesses and she lives in Southern Spain. She lives near Valencia. That is one of the diligences that possibly remained to carry out. But concerning those sightings in Morocco, it was through the cooperation with the English police, with liaison officers with the Moroccan police that tried to obtain the video tapes from that petrol station where the little girl was seen, in order to try to find out if it could actually be her or not. It was all handled from there.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And you don't value the fact that really the lady who saw is married to someone who coincidentally is?

Gonçalo Amaral:
That was actually taken into account and it happened later, as Paulo Reis said, and as a matter of fact it's something that should have been worked upon in terms of being heard.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Well, let's talk about what worries?

Gonçalo Amaral:
But I can also say that apart from those sightings all over the world, in Praia da Luz there were little girls that strongly resembled Madeleine, blond with blue eyes, many of the same age as her. Therefore, someone could have spotted Madeleine there, in Praia da Luz, something that was not done.

Júlia Pinheiro:
That's true, that's true. In your opinion, Maddie, in the opinion of the investigation and of your colleagues and the team that you coordinated, did Maddie die that evening?

Gonçalo Amaral:
She died.

Júlia Pinheiro:
And someone took her from that apartment and placed her where?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Look, when we are in an investigation of this kind we have to understand what the knowledge of those persons is, if they know other people, what contacts they have. If they have means at their disposal. We have to know the area itself, to know about the facility or the almost material impossibility to conceal the corpse within few hours and few minutes. And the conclusion that we reach with all of this, with all of this data is that, if there was any involvement from those nine persons, the corpse could only be in the beach area. And that is in fact where the gentleman?

Júlia Pinheiro:
The investigator.

Gonçalo Amaral:
Not the investigator, the Irish witnesses...

Júlia Pinheiro:
Ah yes!

Gonçalo Amaral:
...see a person passing, a man carrying a child, a little girl, they say that it is in effect Madeleine going towards the South area, let's put it that way, towards the sea side. Now whether or not she stayed there, that is another question. For how long she stayed there, what happens next, only the development of the investigation of that area of death, let's put it that way, could take us there.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Would you have followed that investigation line?

Gonçalo Amaral:
It was the direction that I was following at that time so until we emptied it we weren't stopping, were we?

Júlia Pinheiro:
It sounds so unbelievable, the possibility that a body was placed on a cliff, or in any other area on the beach, and then removed and transported in a rental car.

Gonçalo Amaral:
The corpse couldn't have remained there all the time. It's impossible.

Júlia Pinheiro:
So where was it taken next?

Gonçalo Amaral:
If we take into account that, if we consider the traces that were found in the car boot?

Júlia Pinheiro:
? which are in fact?

Gonçalo Amaral:
? which are in fact from the little girl. In order to justify that bodily fluid as the lab says, it could only have been preserved and conserved in the cold because otherwise it would have been?

Júlia Pinheiro:
That means that?

Gonçalo Amaral:
? in an advanced state of decomposition, at least it's a hypothesis. Therefore it's a question of a deep freezer, or something similar, and there we had to search for it and that was what we were doing. This means, the contacts that they had, where they went, where they were seen? There are people who say that they were seen entering an apartment block near the cemetery in Praia da Luz. At that point in time we weren't able to detect which apartment they entered, who lived there, because it's also a bit complicated because you have to understand it's a tourist area and often it's not known who the apartment belongs to.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Of course, of course?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Who lives there, for how long they live there, so all of that was being worked upon. To try to understand the support?

Júlia Pinheiro:
If someone discovered a deep freezer in the area and?

Gonçalo Amaral:
If it was actually a deep freezer, it doesn't exist anymore now.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Is that still possible to find out? I imagine?

Gonçalo Amaral:
Look, a few years ago on the Azores, after a homicide that had taken place years earlier, we managed to locate a vehicle that was already in a junk yard in which a taxi driver had been killed, a taxi driver from Praia da Vitória in the Azores. But we were unlucky, normally the van's back had a carpet but it didn't exist anymore. That carpet didn't exist anymore, so if we had found that carpet it would have been possible to prove that the death had taken place there, so anything is possible.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Anything is possible. I don't know if Paulo and Duarte have any further questions, you have to be brief, we're almost finishing.

Duarte Levy:
One more doubt, I read in your book that you never received the medical report, Madeleine's clinical history. For example, I also know that ?

Gonçalo Amaral:
We think, because that's the way it is, we spoke to the English police, they said right away that there were problems in England to hand that over within the rogatory letter's context. There is a rogatory letter that was carried out but before that there was another rogatory letter that was being prepared which also contained those questions and which also contained questions about other tests, other tests by the dogs with the friends that were there, namely on the clothes with those same dogs in order to try to find cadaver odour or any other trace, that was important. So there was that rogatory letter?

Duarte Levy:
And you never received those reports, you receive the reply that the McCanns had no credit cards, you already knew that was false, could it then be said that there were two English teams working on this case? The one that in fact stood beside the PJ and the one that worked against?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I don't speak with the English police, I can assure you

Júlia Pinheiro:
And now we don't speak at all because we're arriving at the end. I only want, Gonçalo Amaral, I only want to know one thing. Will Maddie return to your life one of these days, or not?

Gonçalo Amaral:
I think yes. This book has the will of clarifying and of contributing to the investigation, I think yes, there are more things to talk about.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Is that your mission?

Gonçalo Amaral:
It's not a mission, it's a question of recovering my dignity and my honour and that of my colleagues and of this institution to which I was so proud of belonging to for so many years, and of justice being done for the little girl.

Júlia Pinheiro:
Thank you. A round of applause for Gonçalo Amaral. Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis, thank you very much.

(applause)
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